Sun24 Press

Last Episode: The Final

Another episode of the 'Wirecard Sacked' podcast, this season 1 is about detailed insider accounts of the proceedings

in Munich's Stadelheim prison courtroom that have been going on for well over a year.

This is the tenth and last episode of this season 1 with a final recap plus a brief look into the future.

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Season 1, Episode 10

Wirecard Sacked - The Final

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Previous
Episode 9 - The Cross Examinations

Transkript

(Musik)

Jörg: Sorry, but it's really difficult to put it all into the right sentences, right, but again, this is the point. If the defense of Erfa and Braun really do go for a confrontation, they can, in my opinion, drag out these proceedings endlessly. An accusation that has already been made against him in a completely pointless way, because he has brought a lot of motions for evidence that are actually clarifications. He has already been accused of dragging out the proceedings. No, no, no, no, not at all, quite the opposite. But if he wants to, he can drag out these proceedings. And actually ad ultimo, to the point of no return. Because it is undisputed that the question is whether the transaction took place or not. And in my opinion, the structure of the motions for evidence is now recognizable as it is. And I fear, or what do I mean I fear, I could imagine that they are endlessly scalable. That would mean nothing other than that the defense of Braun could bring one motion for evidence after another at any time. And Födisch can't respond, he's trapped, he has to respond. He has to, that's what he's doing, he's calling witnesses from Switzerland and so on. They are all witnesses, many of them won't come, but they are all witnesses from the motions for evidence. And I believe that at some point the public will ask, what is it now? And perhaps that will at least be a moment when journalists will explain to those out there what is going on and what the situation is like. Because as I said, a legitimate conviction of von Erfa and Braun after the procedural events is honestly unthinkable for me.

Martin: I have an image of this, where you just mentioned these motions for evidence, these endless motions for evidence, an image of a field full of mines in front of me, in which the judges and the public prosecutor's office now have to somehow navigate their way through. That's how I see these motions for evidence, which are lying dormant somewhere and some of which have not even been addressed from a year ago. There were also several applications for a reduction in detention, even for remission of detention, as I believe Dr. Braun did. In my view, and I have to be a little careful here, nothing or nothing at all has happened. So it's simple, I have to agree, the one word you said, stunned, I think it describes me quite well. I would put a hyphen in there, so speech - and then hyphen, pause - less. I would go in that direction. I'm curious to see what will happen. Von Erfa's lawyer has also announced that he still has a number of motions for evidence in ambush that he is waiting for, which he would probably still make. There would be more to come. And apart from that, it remains bewildering, doesn't it?

Jörg: Yes, I'm actually very excited. I'm always waiting for the big journalists who have taken up the issue to make a statement at some point. I had actually been expecting this statement for some time. There was actually no statement last summer. Just a summary. Spiegel came out once, which was also very obscure.

Martin: The fragments.

Jörg: No, the Spiegel once wrote, Prosecutor dismantles Braun's defense. I won't mention the names he wrote, you can read it. That was the headline. I don't know how often they were in Stadelheim during the crucial time when it came to Braun's defense. Once, twice. But then something like that gets blown out. As I said, a real, substantive statement, I'm really waiting for Bayerischer Rundfunk. Because they really are, they had the Commerzbank suspicious activity report and they had the 2018 account connections with Antigua and so on. They did a very good job of investigating this and then stopped. And they are still standing today. Absolute, sorry Arne, mental standstill. Zero movement. Zero line. The brain waves on, no Arne, okay, sorry, I'm quiet.

Martin: Sorry Arne, we're sorry. You just came out at the end, I'm sorry. So I see it a bit differently than you do. To continue with my rented field, through which judges and public prosecutors now have to navigate their way, in my opinion, carefully, so that the big bomb doesn't really go off left and right, I have the impression that they will come up with something, something mega-creative, to somehow wriggle out of the misery of the one-and-a-half-year court proceedings, of the faceless court proceedings. And I think that they will use mass-media journalists in particular, who will suddenly come up with something creative that will save the face of the judge, the face of the public prosecutor in the event of a remission or a suspended sentence or some small thing, and that they will then somehow tick it off with an explanation so that the public remains relatively quiet about the whole thing. I would tend in that direction. But I hope I'm a bit wrong and of course, like you, I've lost all hope, I have to say, but of course, like you, I wish that a few, as you say, large or mass media journalists with a wide reach would actually report a bit of what we've now talked about wonderfully with you here in our podcast. A thousand thanks again. It was a great questioning of, talking to you, funny, staggeringly funny, and I would like to thank you once again for agreeing to record this podcast. And I think it will continue. So I think we'll do another episode, right?

Jörg: At least, at least, at least. So I think Michael Ryder-Gordon has reached number 41 by now. I don't know if we'll get that far.

Martin: That's great, how I got in here, we will have more coffee and more in this great restaurant. 

Jörg: Well, I think if someone hasn't heard much about this process, then they might actually be a bit surprised because I've been shooting at this process for hours now. But I would like to make it very clear once again that this didn't happen overnight, but I went into the process relatively relaxed and it really has developed in this way. And I think it's very exciting for me that you approached the process differently and ultimately ended up with the same bewilderment. So I think this bewilderment has to be a topic, it has to be a topic. And I'll say it again, it has to be a topic. This process must become a topic.

Martin: That fits with the name of the podcast again, doesn't it? It's about time that people out there in the public finally bagged Wirecard. Wirecard simply has to be bagged by many people in order to see what they have actually bagged here in the first place. 

Jörg: Yes.

Martin: In that sense, I would say take a break for now. I'm already looking forward to the next series of episodes. And Jörg, thanks again.

Jörg: See you soon then. Yes, I will. Thank you for the invitation and see you soon. Ciao, ciao. Ciao out there.

Martin: Bye.

(music)

Speaker:
Jörg - longtime Wirecard expert and investigator
Martin - Investigative lead at Sun24 Press and Wirecard expert

Organization and realization:
Sun24 Press

Wirecard Sacked

Episode 10 - final

00:00

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About extorted confessions and Bavarian radio news

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About Commerzbank and cancelled Wirecard credit lines

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About supervisory board advising lawyers

The Wirecard PR Court

About an obscure questioning of a Wirecard lawyer

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About crazy judiciary talks and on-target court motions

Wirecard Untangled

About unsolved issues in Germany's master finance scandal

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About strong Spanish financial analyses and weak French allegations

All Inside The Singapore Folder

About Wirecard book keepings an email conversations

Grand Vision Trust

A Wirecard Bank Director and Relationship Managements

Mount Interim

About a Wirecard interim-CEO on a Swiss rose mountain

Harvesting Wirecard

About Swiss roses and Wirecard bears

The PayLondon Group

About bears from London and Wirecard targetings

Mount Acronis

About a Swiss IT sponsor and Wirecard entanglements

Magic Pav

About a Wirecard whistleblower and magic law firms

The Trial

About a Wirecard release of prisoner and Franz Kafka's unfinished works

The Grand Orchestra

About Wirecard's share price and dolphins against sharks

Mount Wirecard

About Swiss Wirecard entanglements and the remains of Crypto AG

Wirecard Court Halftime

About seven months in Munich Stadelheim and the miracle of Bern

Pandora's Box

About Wirecard's IT Architectures

The Third Man

About Wirecard's interim CEO James Freis and nice shoes

Deflective Attorneys

About a five hours Wirecard indictment

Bavariacard

About a Germanic Wirecard Poker

A Munich Fraud

Wirecard and Munich's Public Prosecutor's Office

Royal Courts of Wirecard

About a Wirecard Lawsuit and Quantum Physics

Brilliant Consultants

About Wirecard's financial auditors and the chess game

Back To The Wirecard

About the roots of the insolvent German payment provider

BaFin The Thirteenth

An April 13th day at the Wirecard investigational committee